Says Mark Driscoll: “I wanted to be under authority, but I made a mistake of, how do I say this carefully; trying to be under the authority of my elders, but the truth is all my elders were new and young and green, and they would want to help, but they really didn’t know what they were talking about.” (link)
Mark Driscoll, in yet another re-spin of his past actions, is now saying that the elders he was under were new, young and “green.” It is hard to keep up with the perpetual retelling of the past.
So who were these “new, young and green elders” that Mark Driscoll made the mistake of trying to be under the authority of?
Tim Belz. Prior to coming to Mars Hill, Tim was the Chief Operating Officer with Christa Ministries in the greater Seattle area. He has been a Christian for years (link).
Scott Thomas. Prior to coming to Mars Hill, Scott had planted and pastored churches for years. He has been a Christian for years (link).
Tim Quiring. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church, Tim had served as an elder in a church in Indiana. He has been a Christian for years (link).
Steve Tompkins. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church, Steve had been a pastor in Canada. He has been a Christian for years (link).
Bill Clem. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church, Bill had been the pastor of Doxa Church in West Seattle and served in other churches prior to that. Bill has been a Christian for many years (link).
Jesse Winkler. Prior to coming (back) to Mars Hill Church, Jesse had been the pastor of “The Vine” church in Bellevue, WA. Jesse has been a Christian for years (link).
Dave Kraft. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church, Dave worked in Christian service his entire life and was coaching for Ministry Coaching International, which included coaching Mark Driscoll himself. Dave has been a Christian for 54 years (link).
Gary Shavey. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church, Gary worked for Athletes in Action. Gary has been a Christian for years (link).
James Noriega. Prior to coming to Mars Hill Church James was a pastor at Doxa Church and worked at the Union Gospel Mission. James has been a Christian longer than Mark Driscoll had been when he co-founded Mars Hill Church (link).
Lief Moi. Lief co-founded the church and was always viewed by the younger members as the father figure that Mark Driscoll now claims to be aspiring to become. Lief has been a Christian for years.
Then of course there are Bent Meyer and Paul Petry, seasoned Christians of many years who had the wisdom to stand up and argue against the disasterous change of the bylaws seven years ago.
Here are twelve men of age and maturity.
I do not see any “new, young and green” men in this list. Perhaps the fatherly Mark Driscoll could point point them out?
15 thoughts on “Mark Driscoll: It was a mistake to submit to these young, new and green elders.”
It would be nice to see how long they were Elders at MHC for. I remember Gary Shavey was there for several, but I don’t know exactly how long as an Elder.
wow. I have been watching from afar… and i will admit i am not in the midst of this.. and in no way am i excusing mark of anything… Although he is answerable to the Lord, not anyone on this earth. But your level of sarcasm and the way you and the facebook group attack another man of God publicly REGARDLESS of what he has done is a disgrace. You might think that you are doing the Right thing… or that you are doing it for Christ. But the manner in which you do this, is not Christlike. I am not saying your heart is not for Christ, or that you and your followers have no reason to feel hurt and express themselves but everyday i see new articles that are MarkDriscoll bashing. What you are doing, comes across as trying to drag his name through the mud to make a point. When i stand back as a fellow Christian it is not Marks actions and failings that im am embaressed about… it is the response and the way the Christians he has hurt are standing up and judging another brother in Christ publicly for the world to see. The behaviour i see is juvenile from your side of the argument, ESPECIALLY on the facebook page directed https://www.facebook.com/groups/433217200154935/?fref=nf
I am truely saddened and ashamed to be associated as a Christian when this is what the World is seeing as a follower of Christ. There is alot of plank eyed saints doing an awful lot of talking. I dont believe with even an ounce in my heart that the Lord is watching and is proud of what you and your fellow former members are doing.
Sin is sin… and no one other than the Lord Jesus has the right to do that… dont pretend to know a mans heart by the actions you think you see… its not for us to judge. And believe me… if it was.. you would be coming out just as bad if not worse than That man.
Im sincerely sorry that you feel the need to do this.. that you and the people you represent are so hurt. My heart DOES break for you. And i am sincerely sorry that a man like Mark, is being dragged through dirt by other brothers and sisters in Christ for mistakes he has made… and also for things that arent even mistakes… just things people are uncomfortable with.
I will be praying that you all.. mark included examine themselves and seek the righteousness of God.
How long have you been a Driscoll disciple?
Shoffy, it’s clear you have no idea of the depth of Mark’s actions. We as believers have EVERY right, and a DUTY, to judge a pastor (Mark) on whether they are biblically qualified to be a pastor/elder.
Suffice it to say, if you knew the things we’ve had to endure at the hands of Mark, you’d be joining in holding him accountable. Try this: http://www.joyfulexiles.com
Stacey, “Sin is sin… and no one other than the Lord Jesus has the right to do that… dont [sic] pretend to know a mans heart by the actions you think you see… its not for us to judge”
Jesus was judged by God on our behalf, so that we would not be judged by God. We do judge one another, however, and the entirety of the Christian’s life is filled with discernment, judgement, exhortation. That is love.
(There are few good letters in the New Testament that help us handle the problems inside the church. When the church leaders themselves neglect the letters, using them in ways of power and control, what should we do? Warn others.)
What you are doing in your comment… You are polishing the golden calf rather than casting it into the fire. Mark is that idol that you are protecting. You forget all the people who gave their treasures to him and the generations who have been shunned.
How dare Moses make Aaron feel bad and trash his ministry.
I appreciate your concerns.. they are valid.
Paul tells TImothy in 1 Tim 5:19 through 21 that accusing an elder is a serious matter. But in the same passage he instructs that those that are non repentant should be rebuked in public. This is no matter to delight in, although the abuse from Mars Hill Church has reached levels where one of the ways to deal with it is humor and satire. Sarcasm is not appropriate, but satire is very appropriate in communicating both rebuke and instruction.
I do not delight in seeing Mars Hill Church collapse. It is abundantly clear that Mark Driscoll, by his own standards and (more importantly) by Biblical standards, has disqualified himself from being an elder. He should step down or be removed.
I am not sure how you would exercise a public rebuke of a man and a church that has rebuffed all attempts to deal with this in private. i would be interested to hear.
I don’t see sarcasm here. I see a straight-forward statement of facts: this is what Mark Driscoll said; this is how he described the elders of Mars Hill Church; here are pictures and bios of the men he described that way. If that reads like sarcasm, it’s because of the preposterousness of Driscoll’s claim, not because of anything the author put into the post.
QUESTION: Which one of these men is new, young and green?
ANSWER: The one in the bottom right corner. 😄
Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see a ‘leader’ stand up and say, “I was wrong. I have hurt people. I am so sorry. What can I do to make amends?”
Of course, the words themselves are not enough – subsequent actions need to prove the reality of those words.
This pinpoints the dysfunction accurately. Driscoll forsook the wisdom of a multitude of counselors in a hostile takeover that consolidated power into his own hands. My question is why is he so afraid of being questioned? And my observation is that fear of being held accountable is not a sign of maturity either in leadership or spiritual growth. I sense much fear in him, apologies for quoting Yoda. But humor keeps us from endless floods of tears…
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I wouldn’t say any of them look “green,” but they do all look pretty white. They fit that macho Christian sexist white guy mold pretty well, actually. Maybe he could’ve used some minorities and women to balance out his elders and not just be surrounded by a bunch of smiling head nodders at the beginning.
I visited Mars Hill twice in 2014 before it went under. Although I think Mark Driscoll has done many things deserving of negative online postings, I do think that you’re being deceitful by posting that picture of him. That is not a recent picture by any means. That picture makes him look young and “green”. Obviously he was not being truthful when he gave that description of his elders but you are not being honest by posting that picture. He looks significantly older. I don’t know when that picture was taken but it definitely doesn’t match the Mark that I saw preach.
Crystal, the picture is a picture of the time frame Mark Driscoll referred to when he said the elders were too young. The point made is that most of them were not young compared to him. The pictures show that.